Rejoicing in Hope

The Eternal Gift of Testimony

• Season 3 • Episode 4

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Rejoicing in Hope hosts, Jamie and Jenny, share their thoughts, feelings and reactions on the talk from:

Elder Kevin G. Brown, Of the Seventy, The Eternal Gift of Testimony. Link to the talk: Elder Kevin G Brown

Join us as we discuss key highlights in this inspiring talk:

·         Agency Is the Gift to Choose and Act for Ourselves

·         Witness and Testimony

·         Testimony Should be Eternal

·         Where is Your Sacred Grove?

·         To Care for Your Testimony

·         I Choose to Believe!

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Rejoicing in Hope invites you to discover the joy and guidance that comes from living the gospel of Jesus Christ. For more information on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, click here. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/

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SPEAKER_03:

Welcome to the Rejoicing in Hope podcast. I'm Jamie Grace here with my spectacular wife.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey everyone, I'm Jenny. So glad you're joining us.

SPEAKER_03:

We're your hosts, and welcome to our podcast. We look forward to diving into the inspiring talks from this most recent session of General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

SPEAKER_02:

Each episode, we break down one talk and share the lessons we've learned to uplift and inspire.

SPEAKER_03:

These messages help us feel God's love and strengthen our faith in Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02:

Today we're discussing the talk from Elder Kevin G. Brown of the 70, The Eternal Gift of Testimony.

SPEAKER_03:

Very good. The Eternal Gift of Testimony. Thoughts about the title.

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't have to really even think about the title because all I saw was Elder Brown, and I knew exactly which talk it was and how powerful it was.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Why was it a standout for you?

SPEAKER_02:

His passion.

SPEAKER_03:

His passion.

SPEAKER_02:

His passion. You could feel it. I I wish we all had his passion. Yeah. Yeah. It was powerful.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I just there's a quote that as I was going through his talk and studying it, that I just felt had I had to put it in here about his eternal gift of testimony. And it was about the eternal gift of testimony. And he says, nothing about it is temporary, not the giver, not the gift itself, not the deliverer of the gift, not who the gift is about. And I just loved and felt that really tied in what this eternal gift of testimony really means.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

All right, trivia question. What word was used the most times during Elder Brown's talk?

SPEAKER_02:

Testimony.

SPEAKER_03:

Testimony was used twenty-six times. Yes. Gift was used fourteen times. Christ was used thirteen times. Now, testimony, although used twenty-six times. He referred to testimony ninety times. It was used in like the word witness, the word it IT when he was referencing it about it. He used the word like experience, gift, a sure witness, sacred experience. All these things were really tied. They were just different words for testimony. And uh so when you take all these different words that he was using that were really talking about his testimony, uh goes from twenty-six times to roughly ninety times.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm impressed you counted those.

SPEAKER_03:

So thank you. That I that I that I counted to ninety or that I put those other ones in the in it.

SPEAKER_02:

Just the just the process of thinking about which other words he used that meant testimony or referred to testimony, and then counting 90 of those. That's that was a task.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Well, thank you. I think it'll tie in a little bit to my number one when we get to my number one, and you'll see why I dove in a little bit more. So but you'll have to wait because you're up.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. Well, for my first one, I basically took his second um point or his second, I don't remember what he referred to them as um three powerful truths or something like that. Yes, yes. I basically took the second one and just I'm pretty much gonna just read that. It is so good to me. Um and it's it's because of um his referring to us being agents, which is has really been a powerful principle for me over the last couple of years as I've been dealing with health issues and now the loss of my mom and and all the the um strain it puts on me, and I really have to be conscious of the choices I'm making, and am I gonna let it swallow me up or am I gonna be an agent of my own feelings and emotions and actions? And I can either wallow or I can, you know, pull myself up and you know, continue to do the things that I need to do. So this first section really um was powerful to me. He said the section is called agency is the gift to choose and act for ourselves. It is also the responsibility to choose well. Jesus Christ paid the ultimate price for that privilege with his precious blood. Sometimes we might believe that agency means doing whatever we want, but the fact that the price was paid means agency is a sacred gift. We are agents, and agents are responsible for something. In this case, we are responsible for the choices that we make based on the knowledge that we have and the gifts we are given. We cannot make a choice without being responsible for the consequences. Why do we have agency? To choose good, to choose Christ, to choose eternal life again and again. Those were his words. And I pretty much literally just read the whole first section, but I just loved everything he said and the way he said it, and I just couldn't have said it any better. I really um, like I said, I've just been drawn to that concept that we're agents. I'm a really long ways off from perfecting that. I really have a strong desire in me to be that person that I to have be able to have something challenging happen to me and be able to calmly and confidently choose to act the way the Lord would have me act in that situation. I love the part where Elder Brown points out to us that the Lord paid for the privilege for us to be agents to ourselves with his precious blood. Because he did. That is why he did it, so that we could choose, so we wouldn't have to be captive to Satan's plan. I want to repeat the last three sentences. Choose good, choose Christ, choose eternal life again and again. This isn't easy. Every day we're faced with choices that are hard. Listen to the world. Who is screaming at the top of our lungs to choose the way of the world? Or we can listen to the still small voice, reminding us why we're here and where we can find true healing and joy if we choose it. And that's such a powerful message. And it is powerful that the world is screaming and the still small voice is quietly teaching us, and it's through Jesus Christ and his sacrifice where we're going to find the strength and be able to choose that.

SPEAKER_03:

That was wonderfully said.

SPEAKER_02:

I could listen to this talk every day.

SPEAKER_03:

So my number one, I titled witness and testimony. I spent a lot of my study time this week on these two words, witness and testimony. And I've come to the conclusion that we use the word testimony incorrectly within church settings. Let me explain. Okay. Witness emphasizes the act of experiencing something firsthand, whether that's seeing, feeling, tasting, smelling, etc. This means you have personally experienced something and can attest to it. Testimony focuses on the declaration or statement that results from witnessing. It is an expression of what you've come to know or witness, usually done verbally. In simple terms, witness what you experience and know firsthand, testimony what you say about the experience. So they are inseparable parts of the same truth, but you witness through experience and you testify through words. Okay? Or or it could be actions. So and they overlap, but but they're just not perfect, okay. But in church settings, we use them interchangeably. Yeah. And it was just an interesting, even in in Elder Brand's talk, he did the same thing. And as I've just listened and through things, I'm like, ah, we've we don't use it in the correct terminology. That wasn't what I was looking into because I am not an English person in any way, but I was just looking into this and started understanding this a little more. So I did do some stuff, like I I even went to the Book of Mormon to see how does the Book of Mormon use the word testimony. The Book of Mormon uses it correctly. Each time it was always an actual testimony of either somebody's words or somebody's actions, um, which is always based off of their witness. So it's inter interesting like how that has we've started potentially using that word incorrectly, what at when you when you when people say their testimony or or something. So now we'll probably never change the culture of the church on the way it's used. And I'm not trying to do that today. The only way it's gonna happen is if a prophet gets up and teaches it.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'm starting to think I need to like redo my whole thing.

SPEAKER_03:

I even think further my thing, I probably change a minute in a while. It was just more of a something to understand that that they are there is a difference between the two of them of what that something that you are a witness to and you're a testimony of something. So but I here are a couple quotes I love from Elder Brown. He says, A witness from the Holy Ghost is greater than sight. He says, I had an experience with the Holy Ghost. That experience changed me. So why do I bring this up, right? Like, okay, sure. So it was one, it was just I was learning, and then when I was going through all those words of testimony and similar words, I was just intrigued because of them and I wanted to understand them. So, but secondly, the witness we received from our Father in heaven is so powerful in our lives. If you had a witness, the truth cannot change. You've had that witness. For example, if you see little Johnny push little Sally over on the playground, you're a witness that Johnny pushed Sally over. It is truth, cannot change. The why behind Johnny's action is not part of the witness. Yeah. Right? That truth will always be true. Johnny pushed Sally over. Okay. When we remember the witness we've received, we have to remember it. It was the truth then, and it will still be the truth today, and it will still be the truth tomorrow. Even if someone or something tries to change our thoughts by adding in other elements. For example, why did Johnny push over Sally? Right? Nope. The witness and truth is still there. Johnny pushed Sally over. So the third was with that witness, we have the opportunity to tell of those truths. If someone asks us uh if Johnny pushed over Sally, the answer is yes. If they ask us why, we do not have a witness of it. So when we have received a witness from God, we can tell others about it. And that's our testimony. We're able to share what we can, what we have learned. What has the Holy Ghost taught us in different ways in our life? He has testified of things to us, and the Holy Ghost testifies to us. He's speaking to us, right? Giving us a witness now from the Holy Ghost. And then we can do this. We can testify with in our homes, with our coworkers and friends, with neighbors, in our callings or in classes we attend. We can do it in a talk or during testimony meetings. We also can do it in how we live our life every day. Our actions are can be a testimony so that other people can see it. All those our words and our actions are testimonies to what the witness that we have received from the Holy Ghost. A witness that can never change. It can only be doled because we don't remember it on purpose or we don't testify of it enough to allow it to be doled.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I really think that's an intriguing thought process. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. Not necessarily what anything about Elder Brown, except for he talked about what's testimony and having that passion, but understanding it was more just like, okay, what is a testimony? Yeah, and what is a witness?

SPEAKER_02:

So all right, my number two is testimony should be eternal. He says, brothers and sisters, a testimony is not given for temporary use. This gift from our loving Heavenly Father is meant to be eternal because the giver is eternal. A testimony should not have an expiration date. It should not weaken or diminish because something in life has changed or something in the world has changed. It should not, it should get stronger because, like the servant's talents in the parable of the talents, my personal testimony is a gift to be multiplied, not buried. Who or what will you allow to take that away? This particularly stood out to me because I feel like changes in the world are affecting the testimonies of our loved ones. Yeah. I love how Elder Brown says that our testimonies are eternal. And it is, of course, because Heavenly Father is eternal. And nothing can change that. Nothing can change who he is. He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. If we believed in him once, why would that change? The question I read at the end of the quote came a little later in his talk. I'll read it again. He says, Who or what will allow will you allow to take your testimony away? I think every one of us needs to ask ourselves that question because we are all making choices every day that either bring us closer to God or pull us away from him. Every choice we make. For many of God's children that have lost their testimonies or they've weakened, it began began slowly. They stopped doing the little things. Then it became easier to let go of the bigger things until their testimony was lost altogether. This made me think of the repeated reminder that we have been given lately of daily repentance. I think part of that is taking care of our testimony like the gift that it is. Remembering it every day and nurturing it every day. Forever. Forever. Because it is eternal.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Elder Brown stated, Jamaica is to me like Palmyra was to Joseph Smith. Elder Brand Brown then gave the address of his Sacred Grove for Grove Road, Mandeville, Jamaica.

SPEAKER_02:

Which makes me very tender hearted today.

SPEAKER_03:

That's right. Yes. Because of the hurricane that just went through there. It's Melissa, right? Hurricane Melissa just went through Jamaica and wondering. And wondering what's happened there, yes. Well, before Hurricane Melissa, I opened up Google Maps to find where this is in Jamaica since we've been there a few times. Just wanted to see. And on Google Maps, when you type in the address given, there is a location marker titled Elder Kevin G. Brown's Sacred Grove. It has 33 views and has five stars. I loved that since that point in time that has been put on Google Maps. Yeah. And people have gone out there and put their own. Other people like you. There's other people that wanted to know where Four Grove Road in Mandeville, Jamaica was. And then 33 of them left reviews. So five stars.

SPEAKER_02:

Five star reviews.

SPEAKER_03:

Five star reviews. So where is my sacred grove? Where is my palmyra? And I can remember three distinct times when I was finding my own answers out about the gospel of Jesus Christ. The first was in Riverside, California, where I was living at the time. I remember exactly where I was in the house and what I was doing when God gave me a sure witness of the Book of Mormon. The second was in Provo, Utah, where I was in the MTC. I remember exactly the situation and what was going on when I received a sure witness of the first vision. Finally, the third was in Wisconsin, where we lived for a very short time. I was driving to work between Oshkosh and New Berlin when I received a sure witness of Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. All three of those have always been profound reminders to me and sacred grove memories of those time frames. But I'll also admit I've had sacred experiences in many, many places. Maybe not as pronounced as those three, but they're all sacred groves. And those location locations are too numerous to list, and I will forget some. But I mean, from you know, in my own office upstairs, it could be, you know, in a sacrament meeting that I've been into in the temple. But I had an experience that God loves me and is aware of me and exactly how I'm feeling in many places. But I had one that was in the most ridiculous place to say. But it was in a bathroom on an airplane.

SPEAKER_01:

That's weird.

SPEAKER_03:

Maybe a story for another podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

Ah, don't leave a thing.

SPEAKER_03:

But I I want to close with this quote from Elder Brown. Because of his divine attributes, our Heavenly Father gives us every good gift, each with his eternal perspective and vision in mind. Yes, our Heavenly Father wants to give us every good gift. If we are listening, if our eyes are open, we can witness these gifts in our lives. And yes, even on an airplane in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_02:

The listeners want to know.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. And want to tell the story another time. When that witness is it needs to be shared. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. Are you finished? Yes. All right. My third one is to care for your testimony. And I talked a little bit about this already in my second quote. But I wanted to talk more about what specifically we can do to protect our testimony. Elder Brown says, if we find our testimony weakening, remember that it is the choices we make that diminish the power of the testimony. But the testimony hasn't gone anywhere. We just need to choose to reconnect with it. President Nelson taught, I plead with you to take charge of your testimony, work for it, own it, care for it, nurture it so that it will grow, feed it truth. To me, the words take charge, work, care, own, nurture, and feed sound like an agent given stewardship for something precious and important. Those were Elder Brown's words. What are some reasons that our testimony weakens? Here are a few of the ways I could see my testimony could weaken. First, trials. I think trials cause us to doubt that there's a God that cares. When we go through trials, it can feel that way, but we have a choice, turn to God or turn away. Elder Brown says, like Joseph Smith, who affirmed his testimony despite opposition, we can boldly say, I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it. The second reason I've seen that testimonies weaken is when we start to have questions that don't seem to have answers. And I think we are seeing a lot of that in the younger generations that have social media, you know, that's teaching them, preaching to them. Questions aren't bad, but ask yourself, are you asking for the right reasons? Elder Ukdorf once said, Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith. Elder Brown goes on to say, I commend you for making your own way by asking questions, studying, praying, fasting, and pondering. Please don't stop. It is worth every effort to pursue this path to testimony. The third thing I thought of that can weaken our testimony is just letting things of the world start to take priority over the things of eternity. Initially, probably those things won't change how you feel about the savior or the gospel much, but over time it definitely could. Skipping church, not finding time for the temple, not opening your scriptures day after day, it will add up over time and we'll become less sensitive to the promptings of the Spirit. We'll feel a disconnect from the Savior. I'm gonna quote him again where he says, Who or what will you allow to take your testimony away?

SPEAKER_03:

It's bold. Yeah, to how do you even how do you even answer that? Because if you do, you're just being silly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean it's like yeah, it's a powerful question. Yeah. It's a powerful question.

SPEAKER_03:

My number three is I choose to believe. The title of the section was in my notes during the live session of conference. I wrote I choose to believe with an exclamation point. Choosing to believe is an action. If we want a witness of the truthfulness, we must take action. Elder Brenn Elder Brown said, I commend you for making your own way by asking questions, studying, praying, fasting, and pondering. Please don't stop. It is worth every effort. What greater witness can you have than from God? He also said every son or daughter of God can gain a deeper, firmer, and sure knowledge for themselves. Once we have a witness, we need to share it. Why? Why should we share our testimony? I wrote down a couple of reasons. Our witness and testimony will grow weaker from disuse. If we stop talking about what God has done for us, we may start to forget the details and significance of those events. Our witness and testimony is a way to show gratitude to God. Our testimony puts the focus on God's goodness, his mercy, his faithfulness, and not on ourselves. And reminds us that God is the author of every good thing in our life. My third point. Hearing how God has worked in someone else's life can be a powerful source of hope and encouragement, particularly for those going through similar struggles. Number four, our witness and testimony spreads the gospel. A personal story is one of the most effective tools for sharing God's word. Our personal accounts of transformation can draw others to a relationship with Jesus and discover his true church. And finally, number five, our witness and testimony strengthens our own faith. The act of recalling and speaking about God's faithfulness reinforces our own faith and reminds us how far we have come. It helps us to clearly see God's hand at work in our life. And then I came across this verse that I thought was very appropriate. It's in Revelation chapter 12, verse 11. And they overcame him, him meaning Satan, and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. So we can overcome Satan when we share our testimony. Elder Brown promised us the same about our testimonies. He says that our testimonies will enable you to develop spiritual gifts. It will help you in your personal ministry and service. It will be a weapon against Satan and your adversaries.

SPEAKER_02:

I liked that.

SPEAKER_03:

So he's repeating exactly what we hear from John in the book of Revelation. Yeah. Finally, he says this seek it. It is urgent. Do you have any bonus quotes?

SPEAKER_02:

I did. The rest of the talk. No. Um I had a few.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Choosing to believe is a wise and powerful way to use our agency.

SPEAKER_03:

I had it is in his nature to bless us.

SPEAKER_02:

I cannot see a better way to use my agency than in defense of my testimony.

unknown:

Good.

SPEAKER_03:

I had one other one, but you said it earlier, so.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I can never remember whether you said them earlier or not. I have one more. You may have said it earlier. I don't know. I invite you to think about your path to a sure witness of Jesus Christ and his gospel. Take charge of your testimony. Use your agency wisely and acknowledge the giver and all his glorious attributes. I bear witness that the power is within you. No one can choose for you. No one can take this gift away. You can choose to believe.

SPEAKER_03:

Choose to believe. That was my point three. I didn't use that quote, but that's what's the well, what will you do differently?

SPEAKER_02:

I am going to start by bearing my testimony more, but I hope someday to be like Elder Brown and bear my testimony with the kind of conviction and passion he has.

SPEAKER_03:

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know if I ever get there. Like yeah. Oh, to be like Elder Brown. Don't you think everybody would listen in sacrament meeting if we all preached our, you know, gave our talks with the same passion that Elder Brown has. Yeah. Nobody be sleeping.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I put down that I need to share more. Of course, we share on this podcast, but there are opportunities for me to share more of my witness of him and the blessings he pours out upon me, and I need to do more of sharing. Well, thank you for joining us on the Rejoicing in Hope podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

We pray today's insights help you grow closer to Christ and strengthen your faith.

SPEAKER_03:

I bear testimony of the witness I have of this restored church of Jesus Christ. I know the Book of Mormon is the Word of God. I have read it many, many times, and it helps me always to draw closer to Jesus Christ. It is companion scripture to the Old and New Testament which also testify of Jesus Christ. They all work together. I know Joseph Smith was called of God to restore this church. He was a prophet of God no different than Moses, Elijah, Abraham, and others. He saw God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. Today Dallin H. Oaks is his prophet on the earth today. I testify that obedience to the commandments of God, because of our love for him, will allow us to someday return to our heavenly home.

SPEAKER_02:

I have a testimony that I have a heavenly father that loves me. I know that Jesus Christ is my Savior. I know that Joseph Smith was a living prophet, and through him Jesus Christ's true church is restored to the earth. I know the Book of Mormon is a true is true scripture and another testament of Jesus Christ. I know that President Dalinate Jokes is the living prophet on the earth today. I know all these things and more, and I want to protect this testimony and grow it and care for it and share it.

SPEAKER_03:

If you enjoyed this episode, follow, review, or share it with a friend. Most importantly, keep seeking the Lord and rejoicing in the hope he offers.

SPEAKER_02:

Next week, we will explore the talk from Sister J. Annette Dennis, First Counselor in the Relief Society General President C, cheering each other on.

SPEAKER_03:

See you next time.